Cagliari, eve of the first race of the Louis Vuitton 38th America’s Cup Preliminary Regatta Sardinia. Indoors, daytime. Actually, indoors, morning. Meeting at 9 a.m. in the hotel lobby. And exactly at 9:00 sharp, thanks also to the support of Louis Vuitton, Grant Dalton arrives. On July 1st he turns 69, but he certainly doesn’t look it. A figure who is synonymous with Emirates Team New Zealand and beyond. Grant Stanley Dalton is in fact synonymous with New Zealand sailing as a whole because, in addition to leading the team that has won the America’s Cup five times, he also won the Whitbread Round The World Race twice. He is also a passionate motorcyclist with two participations in the Tourist Trophy, the race on the Isle of Wight defined as “the most dangerous race in the world.” Together with Matteo De Nora, team principal of Emirates Team New Zealand, he is the man who most strongly wanted the 38th America’s Cup in Naples, and so the interview begins right there. From: why Naples?
To answer your question, in 2011 we held a preliminary regatta right in Naples. Over the years we’ve done many of them, but that one was truly special. And above all because of the amount of public attendance. I don’t remember the exact numbers, but there was talk of something like half a million spectators. It was incredible. And that’s what stays with you. An enthusiasm born above all from the Italian tradition in the America’s Cup and from the role of Luna Rossa. Since 1983, with Azzurra in Newport, Italy has taken part in thirteen America’s Cup challenges. So an entire generation grew up around the America’s Cup through Azzurra, and then Italia, Il Moro di Venezia, Mascalzone Latino, +39 Challenge and then the six campaigns (in Naples it will be the seventh, editor’s note) of Luna Rossa, which has become part of popular culture. You could also see it during the team presentation: as soon as the Luna Rossa representative appeared, the crowd’s reaction was incredible. Of course, it’s also the effect of the home crowd, but in Naples all of this will reach another level.
So… Naples.
For all these reasons, when last year I started talking with the Italian Government and they proposed Palermo, Syracuse or other cities in the South, but also Genoa, I replied that for us there was really only one possible place: Naples. Also because in many of those locations the wind is not sufficient. Naples instead offered everything we were looking for. Then the Bagnoli project came into play and that’s when we realized we were facing something enormous. For Naples it will represent a real turning point. And also for Italy, because it will be the first time in the history of the America’s Cup in the country. There is also a very particular aspect: in Naples there will be all the teams that have won the Cup at least once: you, the Australians, the Swiss, the Americans… You’re right, I had never thought about it. It’s really a great point. A fantastic angle. I’m writing this one down! It has never happened before. And I think this will attract even more attention to the event, also from new generations of fans.
What do you expect from Naples?
Certainly huge support for Luna Rossa. And this can be at the same time both a blessing and a curse. There is always this idea that competing at home represents an advantage. I honestly think that in many cases it’s actually a disadvantage. It’s not only the pressure of the public: there are all the distractions of everyday life. Your mother, your aunt, the neighbor, your grandmother’s birthday… all things that are part of life when you are at home. When instead you are away, as we did by going to Barcelona, all these external influences disappear. There is only work and one single objective. You no longer have to think about Sunday family lunch at two in the afternoon: at that time you are working. For this reason I think that winning at home is actually more difficult. Of course, doing it in front of your own crowd would be the most beautiful thing of all, but it brings much more pressure.
Really…?
For Emirates Team New Zealand, for example, the least brilliant of the last four campaigns was precisely the 2021 one in Auckland. And yet we won 7-2. But it was not our best campaign precisely because we were at home. It was also one of the reasons why we went to Barcelona. So yes, competing at home can be an advantage, but I mainly see more pressure, coming from every direction. Though for the public it will be something incredible. Let’s move to the new Cup. With America’s Cup Partnership you are changing the format and vision of the Cup. Also the return of Louis Vuitton as partner represents an important signal… The change was necessary to attract more and more people to these events. We have seen how much cinema and streaming platforms have impacted Formula 1 with the film dedicated to Brad Pitt, or MotoGP with the project presented this year. And the America’s Cup, in the end, has all the perfect ingredients: speed, innovation, adrenaline, rivalry. It is almost made for cinema…
In the future will we see something similar also for the America’s Cup?
Good question. Actually, there is already a documentary film. It’s ready. And it is supported by Louis Vuitton. It wasn’t easy to make it. For a year and a half we all had microphones and cameras on us to the point that we even forgot they were there. And this means that you don’t always control what you say. We learned a lot from Drive to Survive (the Netflix series about Formula 1, editor’s note). Before defining the documentary protocol I spoke with Jim Ratcliffe, who had experience both in Mercedes and in cycling, to understand what rules they had adopted. You will remember that in the first season Ferrari and Red Bull did not want to participate in Drive to Survive, only to later change their minds. We instead decided that participation would be mandatory for all teams: nobody could back out. Above all we imposed another fundamental rule: scenes could not be removed simply because someone didn’t like them. Because otherwise the result would become too, how should I put it, clean, too artificial. The teams were able to preview the footage that would be used, but unless there were defamatory or truly extreme contents, they could not prevent its publication.
So what came out of it is something very authentic, very real, without filters…
When I watched it, as a purist who lives the America’s Cup from the inside, it gave me a bit the feeling of certain Hollywood films like Days of Thunder with Tom Cruise… not exactly a masterpiece. However, independent people who watched it say that it really tells the story well. And today, with the new partnership, all of this represents an even more concrete opportunity for the future. Drive to Survive had an enormous impact on Formula 1. Full Swing did the same for golf. All of this is now on the table for us as well. And one of the strengths of Drive to Survive is that this year’s edition was released just a few days before the start of the championship, immediately creating anticipation… For us the problem has always been understanding when to distribute the documentary: once the Cup ends, you then have to wait two years before the next edition. But if we managed to place it strategically, perhaps during key events or in key cities like Toronto (Film Festival, editor’s note) or Venice (Film Festival, editor’s note), then it could become the perfect bridge toward the next regatta.
Traditionally the America’s Cup has always followed one very clear rule: whoever wins decides the rules of the game. Today, however, it no longer works exactly like that. As defender you have in fact chosen to change the perspective and vision of the event. It is no longer just about defending the Cup, but about transforming it. Isn’t it a risky choice?
It is certainly a risk. The most obvious question I get asked is: why? Why give up part of that control that has existed for more than 150 years? There are three reasons. And the most important is that the America’s Cup was in difficulty. We had already understood it in 2024, at the end of the regattas in Barcelona. And the main problem was economic. The costs to compete had become too high. Even today I still cannot understand how some teams managed to spend certain figures. Something had to be done. And then, even if it may sound arrogant to say it, in some way we were victims of our own success. After three consecutive victories, many team bosses began to think: do we really have to invest another 150 million euros only to probably lose again against Team New Zealand? That was the first problem. The second is that SailGP is having a major impact on our world and forced us to reflect. Finally, the America’s Cup had remained the only major sporting event in the world still structured in that way. Not that it was necessarily wrong, but it was certainly the last model of that type. But the big problem was that the teams had no real value. They were simply cost centers, not assets capable of generating value. A Formula 1 team is a profit center. An NBA team is a profit center. Even major football clubs are profit centers. We instead had remained a sort of dinosaurs. With America’s Cup Partnership we are trying to create value around the teams. They must no longer be only structures that spend money, but entities capable of attracting investment and building long-term value. For this reason we introduced a system of longer-term agreements (one example is that of the boats being valid also for the 39th edition, editor’s note) and a cost cap that for this edition will be around 55 million euros. The idea is that a team should no longer depend on a single person willing to “put 150 million dollars on the table” every two or three years, but can become something with real economic value and therefore more sustainable. With America’s Cup Partnership, which is modeled 100% on the NBA system, the teams, through the yacht clubs, still maintain direct influence on decisions and on the evolution of the Cup, unlike Formula 1 where the teams actually own nothing and everything belongs to the FIA and Liberty Media.
Some people, actually quite a few old fans, however, turned up their noses…
You cannot allow tradition to end up killing everything else. Look, I’m old now, so I can allow myself to say it. I perfectly understand the romantic side of sailors, those who love old-school sailing and the charm of tradition. But the world evolves continuously. Today we no longer go to work on horseback: we drive cars. And sailing cannot be different. One of the best examples right now is probably Kimi Antonelli in Formula 1. He is 18 years old and already at the top of the championship. He could not accumulate much experience in the traditional categories simply because he is too young. But he spent a large part of his life in front of a simulator in his bedroom. And he is extraordinarily talented. This new generation of sailors is exactly the same thing. Maybe they are names the general public still does not know, but they have behind them an enormous amount of simulation hours and then manage to transfer all this directly onto the water.
Above all they don’t want to sail at eight knots. They want to go fast…
To those who criticize the current foiling era I reply very simply: without foiling, sailing would die. I see no future without this evolution. Because the generation that matters today wants speed. It wants fast, technical, spectacular racing. It wants to be able to train also from home, in front of a simulator, and turn that experience into real performance. It does not want the slow sailing of twenty years ago. And I also believe that the Olympic Games, in the near future, will increasingly move toward foil classes. Sailing at the Olympics, to tell the truth, has somewhat lost its direction. I don’t know all the details, but it seems to me a system that has become too fragmented, with too many people involved and too many associations.
Let’s go back to the Cup. The America’s Cup has always been something very exclusive, almost sacred. Today, theoretically, the number of teams that can enter as challengers remains open… Right?
Yes and no. Formally it is open, but in reality not completely, because if you want to increase the economic and competitive value of a franchise network you must also limit the number of members in the network. At the moment we have reached seven teams and I think we have reached an important critical mass. For this reason any teams number eight, nine or ten will not enter under the same conditions as the current ones. The teams present today have paid an entry fee into the partnership. Whoever arrives later, and I already know of at least one interested party, will not enter with the same fee. This is the principle on which value is built. It’s a bit like saying: this time you enter by paying five, next time you’ll pay twenty.
Once again the reference model is the NBA. Today buying an NBA franchise costs enormous figures…
In 2016 nobody wanted a position on the Formula 1 grid, they practically gave it to you. Today instead it is almost impossible to enter. And this is the model toward which we are moving.
So we will never have twenty teams?
Ten maybe, maybe. And then there is also a physical limit. For the Cup in Naples, at the Bagnoli site, with seven teams we are practically full. There is still a central space dedicated to the Youth, Women and ACE office programs. There is room left only for one more team without having to completely reconfigure the area.
Let’s return to Naples. What can you tell us about your secret weapon, those Naples-blue foil arms and the word Napoli… Was it a move to win over the locals?
No, honestly I think someone is trying to look for hidden meanings behind what is simply a gesture of respect toward Naples and toward the incredible welcome we received. I still remember when, at Castel dell’Ovo, we officially announced that the America’s Cup would come to Naples. It was something impressive. People stood up applauding us and I was completely taken aback. As a simple New Zealander, that reaction deeply moved me. I almost had tears in my eyes. And it was exactly in that moment that the idea came to me. I thought that as defender team, because at that time the partnership still did not exist, there were basically only us, Luna Rossa and the French, we had to do something to show respect toward this city. Everything was born from there. There is no reference to Maradona or anything else. It was an instinctive gesture. Among other things these things require months of preparation. The foils and everything else were not a decision taken last week. The clothing and all the graphics are planned at least six months before the event. So, I repeat, it was simply a sign of respect toward Naples, for the way it welcomed Team New Zealand and for the love it will show toward the America’s Cup. It is not a trick to capture sympathy, nor a marketing strategy.
As Defender, which team besides Luna Rossa is obviously the most competitive in Naples?
You’re putting me in difficulty… The French are also working well. It sounds banal to say that everyone will be competitive, it almost sounds like a press conference answer, but it’s true. Obviously Luna Rossa remains one of the benchmarks. That’s evident. I was honestly surprised that in the last edition they performed below expectations. I expected much more. Today however I believe they have corrected the reasons for those difficulties. The French have a good boat, but above all they are building continuity, and this is fundamental. The British will be strong, even though their continuity has been interrupted. We will see if they can quickly rebuild that path. However I would not underestimate the Australians: they have very capable people and they have our boat!
The Royal Prince Edward Yacht Club team announced Tom Slingsby, perhaps James Spithill, Glenn Ashby. They have assembled important names. And then there is Te Rehutai, the boat with which you won in 2021…
Even though the official announcement was only last week, we have actually been collaborating with the Australians for almost three months in total secrecy. So the project is much further ahead than it seems. For this reason, in my opinion, the Australians are the real outsiders, the dark horse of this Cup. The Americans, on the other hand, I think will struggle more. And I think Alinghi will also have a complicated path. If today I had to make a ranking, I would put Luna Rossa, Australians, French and Americans all in the same leading group.
Meanwhile we will see Peter Burling with Luna Rossa on the other side of the barricade…
Yes, and it is a particular situation. Also because it’s not only him: there are many New Zealanders involved in other teams. I must say that at the team presentation, when I saw him on stage, for the first time not with us, it gave me a strange feeling. It was the moment in which I truly realized that things had changed. But also in this case many people are trying to build a narrative different from reality. I want to be very clear: maximum respect for Max Sirena. Max did not try to “steal him” from us. There was no hidden maneuver or dirty game. Simply, after Pete and I were unable to find an agreement, Max called me and asked: “Is it true?” And when he understood that it was, he told me he would try to get him. So there were no backstage dealings or parallel negotiations. And Max behaved in an absolutely correct way. Then we will see what really happens. We will find out next year. That will be the real test.
But the first signal has already arrived. Seb Menzies, who took Burling’s place, won the 49er world championship… (the world championship ended Sunday May 17 in Quiberon, France, editor’s note)
First check passed. He is only 21 years old. The way we, as a team, and I underline as a team, not as individuals, handled this situation was very clear. We won the Cup three consecutive times and probably what we achieved was almost impossible. But by keeping exactly the same formula you would never have won a fourth time. It simply would not have happened, because you remain still while everyone else continues to grow. For this reason we decided to change. And in one year we will understand whether that choice was right or not. I continue to use Antonelli in Formula 1 as an example because it is perfect: eighteen months ago nobody knew his name. Today he is up there at the front. And it is exactly the same with Seb Menzies. Nobody knew him until a short time ago.
But you need to have the courage to change…
As I said in an interview not long ago: Dan Carter and Richie McCaw no longer play for the All Blacks. At a certain point you have to be brave and open a new cycle. Then maybe you will discover that you were wrong. And nobody can know that today. But ours were deliberate decisions, taken with the precise objective of opening a new era and trying to win the America’s Cup for the fourth consecutive time. We did not do it to look like “good guys” helping young talents. We did it because we believe this is the right path to continue winning.
by Matteo Zaccagnino (with Emilio Martinelli)
